Bespoke vs. MTM Shirts in NYC

[NYC_AdTech]

I budget for five white and blue work shirts annually (Luca Avitable and then most recently Ascot Chang).

Last year I gave Proper Cloth MTM a shot and had great results. I have two questions:

1. NYC Recommendations: I’m wondering who everyone else that’s in this area uses? Can anyone recommend a local bespoke shirtmaker other than Ascot Chang or CEGO (excluding traveling tailors)

2. Bespoke vs. MTM: Since I launder my own shirts, both bespoke and MTM wear out at the same rate. Do you value bespoke shirts as much as tailored jackets, or is MTM "good enough" given their shorter lifespan?

[Concordia]

I have never done a 1:1 comparison between MTM and bespoke. For that, you'd probably have to go to one of the London shops that will offer variants of both at different prices. Otherwise, you are more about comparing one house with another.

Strictly speaking, MTM and bespoke mean about the same thing. It is just trade-speak to insist that certain processes will push the product to one side or the other. And makers don't always agree what those qualities are. One famous deceased maker said that bespoke required a PAPER pattern. Not vellum. Not mylar. Not CDI measuring down to the micro-pixel. And probably not doing it all by eye..

Because MTM is often aimed at a lower price point, there might be economies taken that you wouldn't see in bespoke. Nevertheless, for what most people think is MTM, you can often get a pretty good result. If you like the style of the collar they've made available, and don't have any major fit issues, just keep at it. I've been experimenting recently with Proper Cloth and they seemed to get pretty close to just right. Mostly, I just need to dial in the collar size. Warning on a lot of computer-ordered shirts-- they have different notions of what various dimensions are. With Mercer, I order a 36" sleeve and it is just right. Proper cloth won't get me there unless I ask for 37" plus a bit. And collar sizes depend a lot on the construction. I had a HK shop copy one of my standard London shirts, and the collar was over a half inch too small. I'm assuming they made a good faith effort with the tape measure.

On the other, more expsnsive end, bespoke can leave enough flexibility to confuse the makers or invite bad decisions. I had that with Turnbull & Asser. They kept getting my order competely wrong. Like 4 inches too long in the body, or 6" too narrow at the waist. When, at their suggestion, I passed along an old shirt from another house from which they could copy the dimensions, they got THAT visibly wrong even before I tried to wear it. Finally the CFO sent me a letter suggesting that we'd both be happier if I stopped trying.

[NYC_AdTech]

Thanks for the insight, Concordia!

I’ll browse high-end MTM—Inglese at NMWA, 100 Hands at The Armoury, or Finamore at De Corato—but I always pause. At those price points, I start wondering if the money is better spent on full bespoke. Then, I remember the headache of scheduling fittings and the long lead times, and I stall out again.

I’ve settled on Proper Cloth for the convenience and price, but I’m often left wanting more in terms of fabric variety. It makes me question the 'value' of the high-end stuff, especially since my shirts take a beating between the work week, two little kids, and pets.

[couch]

Manton used to say that Geneva Custom Shirts in NYC offered the best quality-price ratio. When he posted here, I believe he was using them almost exclusively. Other members might have more current experience.

I notice that Wil Whiting is coming to NYC in March. Beautiful, pricey, highly customizable. No info about fit.

[raykalendek]

Manton used to say that Geneva Custom Shirts in NYC offered the best quality-price ratio.

+1