An interview with Bernhard Roetzel

"He had that supreme elegance of being, quite simply, what he was."

-C. Albaret describing Marcel Proust

Style, chic, presence, sex appeal: whatever you call it, you can discuss it here.
alden
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Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:07 pm

RJ,

My German (Austrian) was not the one man, self contained and self perpetuating cult of the personality that you incorrectly describe. Nudity was not “his style.” His nakedness simply clothed him in that self naked of all self consciousness. Self consciousness, not over confidence, is the style cancer that rankles the hearts of your fretting, neurotic, and anonymous poseur e-friends.

RJ, in real life, attractive, self confident men get whatever they want and more than they can handle. Its unfair but that's just the way it is. And the real style ill that needs remedy, the one that affects almost all men, is not over confidence but fearful doubting and timidity.

Your general formulation is akin to construing “masculine toxicity” from just being a male. It is extreme. Having individual style is not solipsistic. Like all other forms of individualism, it is most certainly reprehensible, bourgeois and reactionary. And as the market nears 30K, yes, it is clearly the last vestige of a dying, corrupt culture. :D There were countries where anyone who did not wear a white Nehru collared smock was shot. It didn’t improve style (or anything else) one iota. And remember, your pure as driven snow German who is tempted, corrupted and damned by the evil American capitalist Ripley (yawn) had the Stasi to keep everything pure and white. :lol:

And, yes, people who are self obsessed are rarely stylish. And those who are self obsessed in a vacuum, we call them narcissists, are even less apt to embody style. But from what I have seen in my life, there are more men around suffering from lack of confidence than the few very rare specimens who might be pathologically deluded by it.

Though you will resist the idea to your last breath and construe new arguments with even more improbable examples from fiction against it, the fact remains, Brummel was right, the Man makes the clothes. Nothing to be done about it. And for the Man to shine he must develop his own individual style.

Don’t drink the Selosse too cold. And cheer up!

Cheers
uppercase
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:43 am

8-10 C.
The proper temps for serving champagne or sparkling wine.

https://www.champagne.fr/en/tasting-and ... -champagne

However, frankly, spending US$300– on a bottle of wine is excessive consumerism IMO.
Is that really necessary??

Otherwise, I can’t really understand the last few posts. Too dense. The posts, not me.

Is Alden now saying that males are toxic while RJM is saying.....what?
Does this have something to do with being stylish while nude?

Can someone translate?
Screaminmarlon
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:27 am

uppercase wrote:8-10 C.
The proper temps for serving champagne or sparkling wine.

https://www.champagne.fr/en/tasting-and ... -champagne

However, frankly, spending US$300– on a bottle of wine is excessive consumerism IMO.
Is that really necessary??

Otherwise, I can’t really understand the last few posts. Too dense. The posts, not me.

Is Alden now saying that males are toxic while RJM is saying.....what?
Does this have something to do with being stylish while nude?

Can someone translate?
Same for a 5000/6000 bespoke suit? Selosse had a hard time at the beginning because his champagne was so different: now many appreciate it, he doesn’t produce so much voilà 300 dollars a pop bottle.
Many bespoke at 6000 are less deserving
alden
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:03 am

Can someone translate?
UC

This Cole Porter song will explain what RJ (and Wenders) is on about. It contains the two points of view: Evil American Individual vs Collective style. :D



And here is another diabolical American tempter at work corrupting the pure:



“I happen to have worked on the same subject for about the same amount of time….” +1 :lol:

Astaire style at it’s finest.

And what a beauty Cyd Charisse. They do not make them like that in America anymore. Our modern Commissars have seen to that. And they have taken a good deal of "Silk Stockings" off the net, so download any you can while you can.



Cheers
hectorm
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:58 pm

alden wrote: My German (Austrian) was not the one man, self contained and self perpetuating cult of the personality that you incorrectly describe.
Michael, I imagine that you have read Luchino Visconti's biography by Gaia Servadio and that you disagree with her portrayal of Mr. Berger
.
alden
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:15 pm

8-10 C.
The proper temps for serving champagne or sparkling wine.
UC,

Yes 10C is a good temp to serve normal Champagne or sparkling wine. But a Selosse champagne is like a grand white Burgundy in the Corton Charlemagne class. So, in order to get the full impact of flavor, it is advisable to drink it a bit warmer. If its too cold, you will be missing something and at $300 a bottle.... :!: ..best not to miss anything.

When I started drinking Anselme Selosse's Champagne twenty five years ago, it cost 100-110 French Franca a bottle. I used to drive out to Avize and fill my car full, and I had a big car. :D For years I drank a bottle of his wine nearly every night. And then...the word got out. His production remained low and demand went through the roof....its still worth every penny, but it was more fun back when. :D

Cheers
uppercase
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:49 pm

Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:48 am

Very interesting.!!
I suppose that little Astaire - Charisse skit was the tenor of seduction/romance of the times then:1957. What a world of change.!!
I had no idea Cyd Charisse was Russian! Quite a beauty!!

Astaire’s coat is very unusual if I am seeing it correctly : no vent, 1 button, open quarters. Shortish.
Looks Neapolitan, maybe. Not English for sure!
If anyone has any info on this, I would be curious.

As to the sparkling wine, well, I’ll leave that to you gourmandos to appreciate and enjoy, and here’s looking at you.

For me, a superb cremant de Bourgogne reserve is on the menu for this New Year eve!
alden
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Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:57 am

UC

I just like sparkling wine in general. There are some excellent Cremant to be had at excellent prices.

Charisse was Texan, born in Amarillo. Such an elegant woman.

A&S claims Astaire as a client, and say they designed his clothes so he could dance in them....1 button, short coats etc. His trousers are amazing to me, what comfort, ease of motion...to dance the way he does in them. Most men wear trousers so tight they can't move at all.

Have a great New Years!

Cheers
rjman
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Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:54 am

Nana Visitor, Major Kira Nerys of Star Trek Deep Space Nine, happened to be Charisse's niece.

Some years ago I read a biography of Astaire which made clear how much incredible effort went into the effortlessness of his dancing and screen persona. It also included input from John Hitchcock, the former head cutter of Anderson & Sheppard, about what made Astaire's suits so great. However, I suspect there was a fair amount of A&S revisionism in Hitch's comments to the author. I do love the suits and jackets he made for me, but it's uncertain how closely they approximate what A&S was making for Astaire in the 1920s and 1930s, when Astaire seized on the cloths there, "especially" as he said, "the vicunas."

Not sure if Garak was anything like as talented a tailor.

re: Selosse: I have a memory of buying some a decade ago at Alden's recommendation for a small fraction of what the champagne goes for now. My bottle should arrive tomorrow. I will report.
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